B Evolutionary: The Podcast

Michael: Okay, we're, you're on

Audree: with your official trick
for making really good coffee.

Michael: Really?

Audree: Would you like to share it?

Michael: Okay.

So Audrey uses a French press, and I
don't know why I was looking at it.

I, I can't remember why, but
I was looking at, well, how to

use the French press properly.

And it said, well, the best trick
is to wet the coffee with just

a little bit of water so all the
coffee grounds are wet and leave it,

Audree: how wet.

Michael: I don't know.

I, I didn't read, I didn't
read the instructions.

No, no, just so all like the water
gets into every little bit of coffee.

Got it.

So you just drop, drop a little bit
on, not like pour homage on, drop a

little bit on and then let it sit for
a minute and then pour in the rest

of the water and give it a good stir.

'cause the stuff's gonna be sludgy.

So that's what I did yesterday and she
actually noticed her coffee tasted better.

So we'll run the experiment again.

But that's the coffee update.

Audree: Yes.

Okay.

Michael: So where do you wanna start?

'cause we were talking about stuff
and then realized, okay, well

maybe, we'll, this'll be a podcast.

So where do you want, do you want
me to start with the audit stuff?

The madness?

Audree: Well, so the, the back, the
backstory is, um, we have a, a beautiful

advanced student of ours that, um,

I'm more, her and I are, she's
really, really, um, passionate

about women in business.

And so her and I have been having
discussions about, uh, uh, getting

together and, and just speaking together.

Not really nothing else.

It's just like the, it's like the
beginning of a relationship we're dating.

Um, we're, yeah, we're just kind of seeing
what, what can evolve out of, out of just.

Uh, talking,

Michael: what can it evolve to be?

Audree: Yeah.

What can it evolve to be?

Yeah.

Um, so that's, that's, um, we, her
and I have been having conversations.

We had a great conversation yesterday
and she is in the audit industry.

Michael: Mm-hmm.

Audree: She was talking about like, what
are the, what are the challenges within

that industry that we could address?

And, um, and, you know, and,
and the challenges we're,

okay, so this is what we say.

'cause we've taught leadership
training all over the world.

Michael: We've taught
thousands of leaders,

Audree: thousands of leaders years
over a period about, we would teach

like, uh, you know, 30, 30 person.

40 per 30 person courses
three or four times a month.

We were on a roll for, um, many,

Michael: many

Audree: years.

Many years, yeah.

And Michael did keynotes
all around the world.

Really, really, uh,
shifting, um, the way, uh.

Can I say which industry does business?

Sure.

The agile, it's in the agile industry,
so it was new ways of working and

these ways of working were gorgeous.

Like when I came in and met Michael
as an energetic healer, and I had this

idea that the fastest way to shift
the consciousness of humanity is if

we go into the organization because.

Everybody works in an organization or is
impacted by somebody in the organization.

So that's where I got excited 'cause
I could see that, uh, organizations

really influence the masses.

And it's energetic because when a
organization, everyone is functioning

at high levels of consciousness.

The vibrational frequency of that
organization is also a higher frequency,

and their products and their services
are actually higher frequencies.

So the, this ripple effect
is very, very profound.

It, you know, and

Michael: it's not even a ripple effect,
it's actually just direct power effect

within the hierarchy of the organization.

It's not even a ripple.

You're saying if a ripple from a
company being higher consciousness?

Audree: Yeah, like the whole company.

So like, so Michael's teaching has
always been when the leaders are

functioning in these new ways of working,
I'm just gonna go slow for a minute.

In these new ways of working, that
trickles down into the workers and

the workers are the ones that are
delivering on the products and services.

So it's like there's.

There's this, I don't know what I'm trying
to say here, but there's, it's not about

power, it's about these we call, what
we call evolutionary ways of working.

Michael: Well, so, so this is where from
structurally, I see it quite differently.

The, the leadership of an organization
has the power and their power

creates an energetic structure
that holds that organization in

a vibrational frequency template.

And so what happens is when the leaders.

Stay in this command and control.

I'm right.

I, you know, I know it all.

I'm not gonna listen to my people
ex you know, you know, et cetera.

I'm gonna, you know, crack the
whip and get them to do stuff.

They're holding that whole structure and
this, this structure of fear, very low

frequency, and it shows up in performance.

Mm-hmm.

Throws up in sight, low
psychological safety.

Mm-hmm.

And when leaders are very different,
you know, there are many case studies

of organizations look like this, where
the top leaders look more like coaches.

And what happens then when they're
seeing, okay, well how do I bring

up the brilliance of my people?

And that's the question the
executive team's focused on.

How do we bring up the brilliance
of our people in this organization?

The whole organization just opens
up because the energetic template is

holding a higher vibrational frequency,
holding a frequency of potential,

holding a frequency of growth.

And when that, that, and what that It's
not a trickle down, it's a layer by layer.

Unraveling an opening of the
old structures that were there

to open up the whole system.

I make, I can feel it if, you know, when
a new executive team comes in that's

holding a higher consciousness, how
this will cascade through the layers

and you know, everybody there is gonna
have an option to either go with a new

flow or go find another organization.

It'll happen very naturally, very organic.

It's not about a mass layoff program.

It's a very organic thing where people
figure out, well, do I want to be

in this new environment or do I not?

And when the people like, and so basically
it's just bringing people to life.

It's breathing life into a dead.

You know, structured ossified system.

That's what we're talking about,

Audree: right?

Because,

Michael: so it's not a ripple.

Ripple, something different.

Ripples.

What happens when you have that
organization operating at a higher

frequency that ripples out into
the world, into the communities,

into other organizations,
into society, into government.

That's the ripple it creates.

But internally, it's not a ripple.

It's a very direct flow
of energetic frequencies.

Audree: Right?

Because what happens is that.

When the organization is different
and, and if you think about your

own position, your own workplace,
when your boss is commanding

control, how do you show up to work?

Or how do you not show up to work
and wanna, you know, work from home?

You know, it's like, so, so you

Michael: can hide 'cause you're
safer at home than you are in office,

Audree: right?

So it, it really has a psychological
impact on the, on the people that work at

the organization and it damages delivery.

It damages production in a
really, uh, profound way.

So that's what Michael and I
have been, have been teaching.

Um, Michael started this when,
because he was a enterprise coach

and, and looking at organizational
transformation and transforming all these

organizations into new ways of working.

And when I came in and, and this
is what we say all the time.

You cannot change the way things are
functioning, the structurally, the

processes, the rules, um, until you
shift your consciousness because like,

no problem can be solved from the same
level of consciousness that created it.

So if you have an imp a problem in the
workplace with people, you know, the

teams functioning or getting products or.

Projects delivered on time.

Looking at the processes that, how, how
projects are getting, how work is getting

done isn't as important as looking at how
people are functioning together and that

when you have a shift in consciousness.

You're functioning at a very, very
different, you're, you're functioning

at a, like a high productivity level.

Like you can get things done much quicker.

There's not the err in the system.

And, um, okay.

So that's kind of our background.

Michael: Yeah.

So, so, so, so just, uh, I dunno.

Shameless plug or, or fun.

Uh, if you're interested in learning about
the exact mechanics and step by step of

going from a traditional organization
to an evolutionary one that's operating

from a high level of conscious, there
is the book Leading Beyond Change.

It actually is an extraordinary,
um, very, very detailed guide

to this whole, whole process.

So anyway, let's come
back to the conversation.

Audree: Yes.

Michael: So

Audree: the conversation was in about.

Talking to auditors.

Michael: Yeah.

Audree: In the, in their, in what's
going on with their industry and how we

could solve their biggest challenges.

Right.

Michael: And so, so Audrey and I, Audrey
was talking to me about this yesterday,

said, ah, this doesn't feel good.

She says, no, no, no.

Keep in rolling mind.

I go, ah, just it doesn doesn't
feel, it feels like just.

So, so like, like there's no movement,
there's no possibility for movement.

It feels so wrong.

And she's like, well, keep an open mind.

And so I'm thinking, okay, you know what?

I don't know enough about this subject.

So I go, okay, great.

What is internal?

I, so I start my research,
this is what I do.

Audree: Yes.

Michael: I start my research,
I fire up my favorite AI and

I go, what is internal audit?

And so I'm learning, okay, this is
internal audit and I'm listening,

reading what internal audit is.

Well,

Audree: some people might not know.

Michael: I'm gonna, I'm gonna explain.

It's so really funny.

Very, this is my epiphany.

So basically what's happening is all
organizations, almost all of them on the

world, are hierarchical with power Focus
the top, and uh, it's really interesting.

So I'll tell a story in a minute, but
it's really interesting when what you

have is a hierarchical organization where
people get shot for bringing the truth.

So they start lying and distorting
things 'cause they don't wanna get

hurt by sharing truthful information

Audree: about what's,

Michael: about what's really happening
on projects and what's going on.

And so, so what happens is because
there isn't safety for people to speak

openly about what's happening because
the executives aren't helping them solve

their problems and enabling them, there's
all this distortion that happened.

So what happened is executives
noticed there was all this distortion.

So what they did is they created
control groups regulatory.

Security, all these other groups to
try to cont, so basically the control's

not working because there isn't safety.

So they add a second layer of controls
around these group, which is what

creates all the red tape that's supposed
to create more business success.

Of course, the business success is failing
because people don't have safety 'cause

they've, you know, command and control
leaders that are creating a toxic culture

and a low frequency energetic template.

But.

The theory is we add more
controls, things will get better.

They don't, in fact, that
doesn't achieve their goals.

So then what happens then is
they add another layer, another

layer of control on the controls.

Do you see the control addiction?

Control in the executives?

Control in the control groups
and now we add internal audit.

As the third layer of control.

So because, you know, control

Audree: external,

Michael: because control's the best thing.

And now that internal audit's gonna
report up to the board to say if the whole

system of management groups trying to get
work done, the controls on the groups,

whether that whole structure of control
and control and control is working.

And so of course, you
know, what can they say?

They can only report on
quantitative things, but we're

talking about a culture of fear.

How can you report on a culture of fear?

There are no, there are no markers you can
say to say, oh, this is what's going on.

Oh, this is what's going on.

Or let's say you have, let's say,
some sort of survey and people will

say, oh, but we're in benchmark.

You know, 'cause we're, our toxic
culture lines up with everybody else's

toxic culture, so therefore we're okay.

So, so there's nowhere to really go.

There's nowhere to really go with this.

And I'll tell a funny story now.

This is, goes back to some days when I was
working for large Telco and, uh, I don't

know, there, I, I don't know how I got
to know this person, but, uh, this woman

was a, uh, was an internal auditor maybe.

'cause I was there to help
the performance of this group.

And she was there to help understand what
was going on with the performances group.

I don't, I don't know why.

Anyway, so, so I go, I go like, I
don't really understand your role.

What is your role?

And so she started telling me all this.

She says, well, you know,
the leadership doesn't trust

people to give honest answers.

So that's why she's there to find
out what's really going on so

she can go back to leadership and
rat on what's really happening.

And I go, well wait a second.

I like, I, let me, let me
just see, sort this out.

Like the leadership doesn't want the truth
and punishes people who give the truth

so people don't give them honest answers.

And they get you to come in to give
them honest answers that they didn't

want to get in the first place.

And she's going, yeah,
that's, that's what happens.

And, and I'm going like, wait,
this doesn't make any sense.

And she goes, yeah, I know it doesn't
make any sense, but that's my job.

So, but, but I love
the investigative part.

It's kind of fun.

And I'm like, okay, cool.

And so I didn't really connect that
up until this conversation right now.

And so, so, so now we come to
this context of, okay, well now

there's this new, um, uh, I guess
really policy or, or, uh, option.

Within internal audit,
the i i A, well, it's a

Audree: global,

Michael: A global, it's
actually not mandatory.

It's a kind of a recommended good thing to
do, which is to look at, not culture, but

behavioral patterns and behavioral risks.

So, and Iation,

Audree: I'm looking at the
whole organizational behavior.

Yeah.

Michael: And

Audree: which used to be called
culture, they changed the name.

Michael: And so anyway, so again,
I dive in with the research.

What does this actually mean?

What, and they go, well, how
can they actually measure this?

And they go, well, it's actually
subjective metrics, but they can

only report on non-subjective things.

Audree: Well, they're gonna get,
they're gonna get psychologist,

uh, behavioral, uh, psychologists
to come in and do the measurement.

They're gonna work with internal
audit organizations to do the, uh,

Michael: well see.

See this is where

Audree: behavioral stuff,

Michael: well, this is where the whole
thing is really just mental because.

The problem is known.

The problem is the command and control.

I mean, the problem is
actually the whole system.

Well,

Audree: they don't wanna admit that,

Michael: so I, I understand that.

So, so they're trying to use a
control to solve something that can

be, can't be solved through controls.

I think that's my main point.

Audree: I want, I wonder, I don't know
the history of internal audit, but

to me, what, what my spidey senses
are feeling that one of the big

consulting firms created internal audit.

Product.

Michael: Well, internal.

An internal function.

It's not a product.

Audree: No.

They, they hire out

Michael: really,

Audree: organizations hire out

Michael: most have their own
internal groups, I thought,

Audree: anyway.

I, I think they do now.

Or maybe they, I don't know.

I don't, I don't really know if

Michael: it's called internal
audit as opposed to external audit.

Audree: Right.

Which means that there's
people that are hired

internal

Michael: company

Audree: inside the company.

It's

Michael: the controls on the control.

Yeah.

'cause more control will create out.

So this is the whole,
the whole mental premise.

Even

Audree: they're like, they're like spies.

They, they're, it's like
the CIA of the organization.

They're s spies and they're
spying on their people, but

they're not really spying.

They're mm-hmm.

They're saying, oh, we're internal audit.

Remember we, so this is going back
a few years ago, we had a client.

That was implementing new ways of
working, and they had all these,

they, they broke up their organization
into tribes and they were, they were

using these new ways of working.

Michael: They weren't,
they weren't our client.

Well, we work with them.

But we didn't recommend the
tribes thing, just to be clear.

Audree: No, no, no.

We did not.

Michael: That was somebody else inflicted

Audree: that thing on them.

They were, they had already
established these new ways of working.

What I'm getting at is they had tribes
and so we were looking at the organization

'cause we were, you know, they came
to us for leadership training and we

were looking to see like what, like
what was going on in the organization?

Why wasn't this working?

Why weren't these, they brought in these
new ways of working, which we call.

Get this evolutionary ways of working.

We're talking about
conscious business practices.

It this is not command and
control business doing business.

This is conscious business practices and
it's evolutionary ways of working and.

Michael and his genius really figured
out how the, how to do this step by step.

And so we're looking at their organization
and they're like, um, please help us.

And we're like, okay, well how
is your organization structured?

And they showed us and da, da, da,
da and we couldn't figure it out

because it seemed like, oh, you know,
I mean, first of all, we understand.

That just implementing new ways
of working these higher business

practices does not necessarily
mean it's going to work because the

consciousness hasn't shifted yet.

Michael: Changing
structures does not change.

Mindset.

Audree: Yes.

Then they started, I don't know.

I don't even know

Michael: how we, no, I can,
I can tell you the story.

I don't

Audree: how,

Michael: what happened is,
what happened is people went.

We, I call it wild Agile.

Agile god, wild, whatever
we wanna call it.

This thing where people just use, just
implement some crazy model and just go

do stuff and hope it's all gonna work.

Audree: They reorganize the whole
entire organization and make a mess.

Michael: Yeah.

And then, and then the, the organization
says, oh wait, this is a mess.

We need controls on it.

And then they put, then they, they put
an internal, this is what happened.

They put an internal audit on it.

So that there was, somebody was making
sure that every, all the teams were

following all the rules and policies,
which are designed to put them back

into traditional mode of operation.

So

Audree: this is what to

Michael: take away the
benefit of what was there.

Audree: So this is what happened.

There was an internal auditor
at every single meeting.

Every single standup.

Yeah.

Which is daily.

Michael: This is the
command and control coming

Audree: back in every single meeting.

So while they were having meetings
to co-create how to work together,

co-create how they're gonna deliver
on a project, they would do these

two week sprints or whatever, and.

I'm just making up random details.

These aren't the exact details,
but this is usually how the

flavor of it, the flavor of it.

At these meetings, there would be an
internal auditor who was measuring

these processes and, and, and seeing,
you know, where the risk was and

said, no, you, you can't, you can't
co-create together, you know, you have

to do, um, you know, standardized.

Uh, processes and procedures
that are benchmarked against the

industry or the organization.

So it was like I.

What I'm thinking of is gas break,
like the, the organization was coming

in and trying to restructure and do
these new ways of working so people

were engaged and motivated and delivery
was smoother with these new processes.

And the internal audit at every single
meeting was saying, no, you can't do that.

No, you can't do that.

I mean, that was specifically
like what's happening?

And they said, every time
we tried to put in a new.

Process our new, you know, to
do work in a different way.

The internal audit that was at that
meeting said, no, we can't do it that way.

And that's what blocked
the whole entire thing.

Now there's other things to talk
about because within the organization

there's also, um, politics.

You.

You're giving me quiet coyote.

What do you want me to, you
want me to talk slower, quieter,

or do you want me to shut up?

Just, just,

Michael: just bring it down.

Audree: Really?

Michael: Yeah.

Audree: You were just talking super fast.

Michael: I know.

Audree: Okay.

Michael: It's easier to notice
when it's the other person

Audree: I know.

Exactly.

You never could see it in you.

You can always see it in the other.

Michael: I wouldn't say never.

Audree: Whoa.

The external world mirrors
the internal world anyways,

this is internal audit.

Michael: Hmm.

So, you know, from my perspective,
looking at the whole structure of

the whole thing, all of internal
audit is like changing the deck.

Tourism the Titanic is kind of, you
know, chipping away at the edges

without talking about the real problem.

All of the controls people
have within an organization of.

Cybersecurity and risk and so on.

The way it's structured and function
is, is is generally to 99% kill the

performance of the organization.

1% create effective risk management.

And then if we look at the way the
organizations themselves are functioning

with the core delivery and, and,
and product groups, it's, it's, it's

toxic and, um, a complete waste of,
of almost a complete waste of time and

productivity and human, human waste.

And if we look at the actual root problem,
the root problem is the executive team

and the culture and the mindset and
the conscious of the executive team and

the behaviors that come out of that.

It's really,

and

Audree: then allowing the
be the behaviors down below

Michael: as well.

Lemme, lemme, lemme just, just finish.

Audree: Mm-hmm.

Michael: Because if you look at
what internal audits supposed

to do, is supposed to make sure.

That they're guaranteeing the performance
of the organization, that they're

looking at the risk to the performance.

The, the really, the only risk to the
performance of your organization is the

consciousness of the leadership team.

And even in, like, if you, if you look
at the most progressive organizations,

let's take Ricardo, similar with Emco.

We can look at case studies like this.

The leadership of the organization was.

Was not finished growing and learning.

They're what we call evolutionary leaders.

They were committed to their own
growth and their own evolution and

ready to look at their own behaviors.

Like there's, and, and then when we
have leaders that are functioning,

they're, they themselves are growing,
they themselves are evolving, then

they create the energetic template that
allows the organization to, to grow

and evolve and everyone to function.

And so really the only performance issue
that I can see of any consequence or

significance to address that I'm even
remotely ever interested in working in

our context of evolved to be working
with organizations is working with

organizations where we're working
directly with the leadership team.

Everything else is a
complete waste of time.

Really everything else is, it
can make some improvements.

And I, and I've done this, other
people have done this, other people

have done transformation programs,
and you can create a benefit within.

And, you know, this is what we teach.

And it's possible you can create
benefits within a bubble, within a,

within a, someone within your team.

You can create a bubble of, of, of
more conscious ways of working within

the constraints of the officer system.

Or a manager can do this.

Or a, a vice president
or a department lead.

These are all possible within the
constraints of a larger system.

And so if you're in that situation, I
say, the tools are here now go for it.

It, you can actually feel
better about doing your job.

You can do a better job, you can get
better results, and you can actually

create a better environment for your
people and actually fulfill your role

as a manager to improve operational
effectiveness, which is your role.

And the most effective way to do
that is by creating the energetic

structures through a more conscious,
uh, leadership approach operating, uh,

with, in elevating your consciousness.

And of course, that ties in
with the b evolutionary line.

'cause the, the, the mechanism
is here now to, to do that in a

very profound, rapid way, whether
it's even just through audios.

I mean, it's, it's all here now.

And so that possibly exists for
every single manager or somebody

who has reporting function.

Or leadership function
within an organization.

Right now,

Audree: I'm gonna

Michael: go, however, from on my
perspective, talking to you, Audrey,

now from working with our organization,
I'm interested in enabling that

for people who want to do it.

But me personally, directly, unless we're
working with leadership, I, I, I, I'm

busy in the lab, like I got things to do.

Audree: Yeah.

You're not even supposed to be
doing anything with Evolve to be

Michael: Well, I'm,
I'm here to support it.

Audree: You're here to support it,
but you're not here to, to make it

Michael: happen.

Audree: To make it happen.

So what.

So this is really interesting
because of Michael Mi.

Michael is very adamant about the way
he wants to work with an organization.

He only wants to work with an organization
that is interested in, in evolution

and conscious business practices

Michael: with leaders who
are ready to go first.

Yeah,

Audree: and what I am really.

Passionate about is that
it can happen anywhere.

And so when we switched our product line
from just working in, in an organizational

context to working in a personal context,
Michael got really excited and I'm

really excited too about that because.

What I see is it doesn't matter how
your organization is functioning.

It doesn't matter how
your boss is functioning.

It doesn't matter how your team.

Um, your, your, your, your team people
are, I'm at a loss for words right now.

Um, the people on your team, your
peers at work, it doesn't matter

how they are showing up, what does
matter is how you are showing up,

and I think that's where the personal
evolution is the most powerful because.

You might not have control of the
environment or the world around you.

You might be, you might
have to go to work.

Every single day and, and the people
around you are not gonna be evolutionary.

They're not gonna be higher consciousness.

And so instead of saying, no, I won't
work here, or, no, you know, these people

are wrong and bad, and the only way it's
gonna change is if the leaders change.

Waiting for that to happen
will never be sufficient.

It because what you can do is you
can change everything now by your own

personal evolution because it's how you
are reacting to the outside environment

and how you are showing up to the
outside envi environment that is gonna

make a huge difference and begin to
shift and change everything around you.

Mm-hmm.

So.

To say, oh well I'm only gonna
work with the an organiz.

You're talking about me

Michael: personally Not, not about, I

Audree: know I'm evolve

Michael: to

Audree: be work.

Michael: Yeah.

Audree: Evolve to be and me my is here

Michael: for the people.

Audree: My passion is to say, it
doesn't matter what the leaders are

doing right now, and maybe eventually.

What

Michael: I'll take a line from, uh,
from that movie of the rap who cooks?

Anyone can be a good leader.

Yeah.

Anyone can be a conscious
leader in any organization.

Audree: It's true

Michael: and it's true.

Audree: It is true because it's
how you sh It's really how, how

are you showing up to your life?

Are you gonna walk into work every
single day and be in an emotional charge?

Be angry, be frustrated, be uncooperative.

Um, blame everybody around
you or are you gonna take.

Full ownership and responsibility
for how your, your, um, life

experience is happening.

'cause it's not happening to you.

It's happening because of you.

And so these are the little, this
is what you have control over.

Michael: Oh my gosh.

You know what?

I just got what?

It was profound.

Audree: What

Michael: the, the business course
we have the LEO one, leading

evolutionary organizations, level one.

Gives leaders the structure and
the tactics for how to function.

Audree: Yeah.

Michael: You, you rights realize

Audree: it.

It gives how to, what to do, what

to,

Michael: what to do, look

at

Michael: what to do.

The very practical, how to
create a culture bubble,

Audree: how to recognize what's
going on in your organization.

Like, it's like

Michael: how to stop causing damage.

All these good things,

Audree: mind boggling.

Michael: Let, let me, let me go on though.

Audree: Yeah.

Michael: However, mm-hmm.

However,

the level one.

On the B evolutionary side, the level
one awakening courses is what actually

gives them the ability to start
developing their own psychological safety.

Audree: Could you imagine those two,

Michael: oh my God,

Audree: courses Back to back.

Michael: Do you know what I just got?

What that the, the, the level one, um,
awakening on the be evolutionary mm-hmm.

Is what actually gives
them, so it's almost like,

Audree: sorry, now we're
having a strategy meeting.

Michael: Right.

So, so no, no, no, no.

But this is actually really
important for every listen.

'cause it gives you the, the
consciousness shift, it gives you the,

the psychological safety needed to, I.

The tactics and the strategy.

Mm-hmm.

However, the thing is, it's, but we, we
don't do that in a business course because

it steps outside of the business boundary

Audree: ex.

Exactly.

Which, um, now internal audit,
this, this, uh, mandate is

bringing behavioral issues,
behaviors into the corporate context.

It actually is, is look, starting to look
at how people are showing up and behaving.

So.

It's not outside business
boundaries anymore.

Michael: Huh.

Wow.

You know what?

I'm just wondering because we're talking
about LEO two and three, is that, I guess

we're doing our, our whatever anyway, um,
is that, those are pure business classes.

Audree: Mm-hmm.

Michael: That we don't even
do the, the advanced personal

development work in there.

That's actually just in a, in a,
in a personal development branch.

And people want it to get, they
get it there and it's really

just about tactics and strategy.

Mm-hmm.

And mechanisms.

Audree: Yeah.

Michael: And it just is, and it becomes
a pure business line that's independent

of the, the personal development line.

Audree: Right.

Conscious bus or, I like
evolutionary business practices.

Right.

Michael: And that way we're sort of,
we're separating church and state.

Audree: Mm-hmm.

Michael: We're separating the structure
and the function, the business

technology that we've developed.

Right?

Right.

All this beautiful like tactics and
strategy and structure and approach

and so on from, from the other side.

And I don't know if it can be
separated or if it makes sense,

I'm just saying like, what if,

Audree: well here, because

Michael: then it creates a, it creates
a clarity of, okay, well I'm doing this

for me versus I'm doing this as learning
how to function as a leader and skill.

Audree: Well, I, I think that that's
where the, that's what I'm saying.

Is that we'd have it separated right now.

Yeah.

We separated it out because we saw
the need for, for, for the personal

evolution, the personal shift in
consciousness and how important that is.

And we, we separated it because we saw a
whole entire population that's struggling.

That can and, and, and we lowered the
price, so, so people can, can access it.

Right now we made it self-paced
so people can access it right now.

Like we did all these things so people can
have it without their organization saying,

Hey, we wanna do things differently

Michael: here.

You know, you know, we're, you know how
we're working with this one organization

right now through one of our students.

Mm-hmm.

I'm just wondering if somehow
we make the level one available

Audree: Yeah.

Michael: Within the organization.

Audree: Yeah.

Michael: And then, and then that might
actually, and because it's a self-paced,

Audree: it's the rocket fuel.

It,

Michael: it's the, it's self-paced.

Audree: Here's,

Michael: it's like, oh my gosh.

They could run experiments on that.

Audree: Anyway, here's the thing.

You cannot change the structures.

You can't have new ways of doing business
without a shift in consciousness.

Michael: Let me, let me finish.

Audree: Without that evolution in
consciousness, it doesn't work.

Michael: It, it's almost like there
could be a pivot because I, you

know, or the person we're working a
certain amount of funds allocated.

They pivot, they do a, they do an AB
test and they find out how effective,

just giving people the, the safety
is versus the, the L one training.

And it's almost like, oh my gosh, this
has this benefit, this has this benefit.

Yeah.

And it's just a, just a crazy idea.

Audree: So here's, here's the thing
is that, and this is what we taught

in our, in our leadership training,
and this is what we teach in our

personal growth training, is that.

Psychological safety.

Nobody can give it to you.

You cannot, okay?

You cannot walk into your office.

Your boss can be the best boss ever.

Literally uplifting you, supporting
you personally, interested in you.

You know, really, really how
can I help you be successful,

that that could be your boss.

And if you are at a low functioning, at
a low state of consciousness and blaming

everybody else and frustrated and have
a lack of psychological safety, that

boss could maybe put the needle a little
bit towards your psychological safety.

But you are the one that is
creating your psychological safety.

Nobody can give it to you.

The outside world cannot be blamed
for your lack of psychological safety.

The only person that has the ability to
give you psychological safety is you.

And I mean, even in our playbook, in our
leadership training course, psychological

safety is the cornerstone for everything.

Michael: Everything you wanna

Audree: play high performance.

Is based on how much
psychological safety you have.

Michael: Well, it all ties

Audree: together within
the, within the system.

Michael: We're getting ready for
level two course and reviewing, uh,

we're reviewing the playback from
level one and I go like, oh my gosh,

this is such a sophisticated course.

Like, I had no idea we had this,
like, it's a very powerful course.

We were looking at, we're going through
lead no matter what this model of, of

putting out, you know, green arrows versus
red arrows and so on and understanding.

Our interaction dynamics
with all of creation.

And I'm going, wait a second.

We're explaining all of creation to
people of exactly how they're creating

their reality right here in this diagram.

Yeah.

And then tying in psychological safety
to the diagram right now of when you have

psychological safety, you, you're not
gonna be triggered, which means you're not

gonna put out red arrows and cause harm,
which is what's gonna create a, a feedback

loop that creates problems for you.

And when you, when you're in
high safety, you're only putting

out good arrows into the world.

So only good arrows come back to you.

Only goodness, you create
a cycle of, of positivity

Audree: automatically.

But nobody believes that.

Everybody is, is well.

Michael: Once they get through
the level one, they'll, they'll

go, oh my gosh, this, well, either
they'll blow up or they'll get it.

Okay,

Audree: so let, so now we're
gonna tie in yesterday's podcast.

We are all indoctrinated to believe.

That the outside world
is causing you harm,

Michael: which means we're
indoctrinated to self disempowerment.

Audree: Yes.

Which also means that we feel
like we don't have control and

we can't change things, hence.

You know the organization is gonna
be command and control until the

leadership changes, and that is not true.

You can, as you as a individual, have
so much power to change the environment

around you by how you're showing up.

Michael: We keep on going back to oui.

Anyone can cook, anyone can be a leader
who creates change in conscious ways.

Audree: But the way you're saying it
is like, I was trying to, so coning

Michael: I was, I was trying to,
I was trying to copy the French

chef who said, anyone can cook.

Audree: Yeah.

But there's something behind,
there's an energy behind that.

Oh,

Michael: okay.

I'll go look.

Oh.

There's still some toxicity from
working through helping those

organizations for many, many years.

Audree: Wow.

So growing up in your family unit Yeah.

Like it's pervasive.

Michael: Yeah.

Audree: We are.

Okay, so we have, so here's the, so

Michael: I can say it again.

I can say, I'll say, I'll say it
clean if I can, which is that what

we've seen, um, really what we've
seen working with leaders working

in command and control organizations
all over the world, in many, many

countries, in many different industries,
many different sizes of companies.

We've seen again and again with the
right knowledge, with the right.

Tools and support and development leaders
can function very, very differently.

They can create a very different kind
of culture within their own team,

department, et cetera, and that what they
can do is they can uplift their people

very directly and then they can create
a, a ripple through the organization

where others are interested in, where
they get promoted very, very quickly.

That's what we've seen again and again.

It's a very Right.

Audree: This isn't

Michael: theory.

It's a repeatable pattern.

Yeah.

That when people learn the tools and
use the tools, they get promoted.

Usually the first promotion comes
within about six months because

all the raw skills are there.

It's about orchestrating them into co
coherent framework, which is what we

talk about, a shift of consciousness.

It's a move towards coherence.

And so when we have coherence in
our mind body system, that allows

us to have coherence within our
skills and capabilities that

allows them to come to to fruition.

Audree: Yes.

Michael: Is that cleaner?

Audree: Very, very clean.

Thank you.

Michael: So that is, if we summarized,
is the mission of Evolve to Be,

Audree: yeah.

Michael: Is to help
those leaders function.

Audree: I wanna, I wanna point
something out here, which

Michael: is, so now we really feel like
we need to get the self-paced course up.

That's how, right?

Audree: Yeah.

Um, was what happened with Michael?

Let's debrief this, shall we?

Michael: Mm-hmm.

Audree: There is no way that you can
change your life if you are still

holding trauma or emotional charges,
or anger, frustration, and blame,

Michael: or to put it in a linear
perspective to the extent that you

let go of your frustration, your
trauma hurt, you know, past life

issues, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Energetic templates, DNA,
energetic structures.

Many, many, many other things
I'm not gonna go into here.

Uh, to the extent that you let go
of those, you liberate yourself

from those limiting structures and
you can create iteratively more and

more of, of what you want to create.

Audree: Yes.

And so we saw it here with Michael.

So, um, I'm a projector.

My, and I can feel everything.

So Michael's doing this thing and
he thinks he's just joking around or

kind of making a parody of something.

And what's really happening
underneath the hood is that

there is some, some frustration.

Michael: Unresolved conflict.

Audree: Unresolved conflict, right?

And once

Michael: he, a structure, energetic
structure within my being that's

Audree: figuring this.

And because he has mastery distortion,
it doesn't, because he has mastery

doesn't mean that everything's gone.

What we just recognized here, or got
to witness is that Michael stopped.

He took the feedback of, oh,
okay, what if it were true that

there is some disturbance here?

Right.

That's, that's leaking out.

And he went in with awareness and he
quickly, like, it happened so fast

that he, because he's has mastery of
these tools and techniques and the

knowledge and what if it were true?

Okay?

He went internally, he found
the disturbance, he breathed.

All you have to do is breathe into it.

There's no story.

There's not any.

Oh, where is this coming from?

Da, da, da, da.

He just went into it.

He breathed in.

He is like, oh, there it is.

It's right there.

I could feel it.

He breathed into it.

It resolved very quickly because awareness
is the primary mechanism for evolution.

We said this yesterday.

And, and then it, it resolved
or it, it dissolved basically.

And then he was able to reestablish
a higher consciousness reaction

or response to the same exact
thing that we were talking about.

Mm-hmm.

In a minute.

Michael: That was about 30 seconds.

Audree: Yeah.

Less than a minute.

Michael: So, just to clarify, it wasn't,

Audree: congratulations

Michael: you were describing
the, the, the earlier stages of,

of evolutionary practice for.

Releasing structures.

That's not what happened with me.

What happened with me was very simple.

It's like I looked at it, I felt it.

I was aware of the, the egoic conscious,
the mind body construct, holding it,

and then I backed out into the knowledge
of the truth of what and who I am.

Audree: I know, but nobody
else is at that stage.

Well,

Michael: I, I know, but I just wanna
clarify that that's what it takes.

Like it's not, you can, if you're
breathing into it, that means you're at

that stage of the evolutionary technology
and things take a little bit longer.

It still works, but it takes longer.

Audree: Yes.

Michael: Right.

But eventually when you,

Audree: eventually, that's
what I, to self mastery,

Michael: that it's not
really what you think it is.

And all the really, the gas break around.

The judgment and the resistance of
that actual structure goes away and

'cause you know who you are and it's
not really what's going on, then

everything just becomes instantaneous
is pretty much what happened.

Audree: Exactly.

Michael: Yeah.

But Imbu, so what else do you have?

I think we're coming up to 43
minutes, so I'm not sure what Oh,

Audree: 42.

That's a good number.

Well.

Michael: I feel pretty complete.

Audree: I, I think just to wrap it up
is that organizations are understanding

that mindset, behavior that, you
know, the way people are showing

up at work is, is very damaging.

And you know, the other thing about.

Audit, just audit in general, is that
if they were looking for corruption,

if they were looking for corrupted
business practices, if they were looking

at the behavior of the people where
there's backstabbing, there's, you

know, taking people's business ideas
to get promoted, there's, um, there's

horrible command and control behaviors
on, on the teams, you know, or, um.

You know, there's unequality, there is
um, there's still kind of racism and

uh, really high, uh, you know, lack of
integrity going on within an organization

because that's the business world.

It's very cutthroat still 'cause
people are in survival mode.

And so if, if there's audits to look at
these structures to say how can we, you

know, not just identify that this is
happening, but then how the, how to, you

know, we need the, how to change this.

Identifying that, you know, the behavior,
organizational behavior is one thing.

You know, and they took, you know, looking
at culture, they just changed the word to

organizational behavior, which a while ago
it was, it was organizational behavior.

It turned to culture.

Now it's going back to
organizational behavior.

They are just rearranging the d the,
the chairs on the deck, the deck

Michael: chairs

Audree: on the neck, the
deck chairs on the Titanic.

Identifying is one thing.

How to change it is totally different.

Michael: I just

Audree: got, and that's
what we're talking about.

Michael: I just got a really good drop in.

Audree: Yes.

Michael: Oh, this is so good.

The whole structure of the
organization is command and control.

Control.

They add more controls through the
regulatory than we add in the controls

from the, um, the of the internal audit.

And then all that goes back up to the top.

And you know what the question, they ask,

Audree: what,

Michael: how can we add more
controls to solve for this?

Audree: Yeah.

Michael: And the whole thing is it adding
more controls can never solve for it.

Mm-hmm.

And this goes back to the, the
quote that Audrey shared at

the beginning from Einstein.

No problem can be solved from the same
level of consciousness that created it.

And so when we're in a consciousness
of control, the low frequency

conscious of control, and that's
the paradigm we're operating in.

There's no possibility when we're
operating from the, the, the paradigm

of, of, of humanity, the paradigm
of growth, the paradigm of learning,

the paradigm of understanding these
higher frequency paradigm, then at

that point the solutions emerge.

But there are no solutions
available for these companies.

I think that's what I was saying.

From a holistic system perspective.

Audree: Yes.

Michael: At a, at a, at a, I

Audree: agree with

Michael: you.

Unless the, unless the actual.

Fundamental perspective shifts control
can only beget more fear, more limitation.

Audree: Yes.

And humanity is already indoctrinated
into fearing authority and the whole

entire planet is based on command and
control, fear-based mechanisms to get

people to do things, to get people to be.

You know, just more civil to each other.

It's like we have not figured out how
to let go of those command and control

behaviors and trust that the more
we let go of command and control and

evolutionary ways of
functioning that will support.

People coming together and
working together and producing

together, and delivering together.

And, you know, the, the, the function
of the organization can, can be, I don't

wanna say miraculously changed or in this,
I'm, I'm not being, um, overly optimistic

because I've, we've actually seen.

The potential can change in one day.

Leaders can go back to work.

Uh, parenting parents can
go back to their families.

You know, you can go back to your
relationships in one day and change how

you show up, change your perceptions,
your beliefs, and your behaviors

with a shift in consciousness.

And that shift in consciousness,
just effortly effortlessly

creates new behaviors.

It's not like you're trying to do
something, it's just that your shift

in consciousness, your consciousness
has evolved and the the new ways

of functioning behaviors emerge,
I think of like quitting smoking.

When you say, oh, I'm gonna quit smoking.

I'm gonna quit smoking.

It doesn't work.

It doesn't work.

It doesn't work.

And then there's something that shifts
in your brainwave patterns where it's

just an automatic shutoff and then
you just quit smoking cold Turkey.

Yeah.

And it's super easy.

Michael: Yeah.

I think what would, yeah.

And now they're talking about it.

What would really help, I just
imagine working with an organization

that wants to go on this journey.

Mm-hmm.

Is if we actually had a way we
could measure how the, uh, the

leadership was functioning.

In terms of their, their level of
consciousness or their coherence?

Audree: We do,

Michael: yeah.

Audree: In a variety of ways.

So

Michael: I was thinking
about something new.

Audree: I know.

Michael: Yeah.

And how, how, how that would help
everybody that would accelerate the whole

journey and make it very, very quick.

Audree: I, I think the, the issue here is.

Is that even when we saw, when
there were students that came into

our leadership training program and
we're talking about evolutionary ways

of functioning, and they're like,
well, no, I'm expected to show up.

As this type of leader, command
and control leader, other,

any, any other behavior outside
of that command and control?

I would be seen with weakness
as, as a weak leader.

And what happens is that it's not
about the people, your peers or the

people above you, but it's about
the people that work with you.

If you are showing up in
this, in this new way.

With, and, and you're supporting new ways
of functioning with on, on your team and

your team is actually, you know, allowed
to be brilliant, allowed to be part of

the co-creative process allowed to shine.

Michael: Mm-hmm.

Audree: They're gonna
uplift you as, as a leader.

Mm-hmm.

And they're gonna be delivering
and functioning much differently.

And then the outside.

Organization comes and says,
Hey, what are you doing?

And we've had this with one of our one,

Michael: many of our students,

Audree: many of our students,

Michael: of our students,
many, many, many,

Audree: many, they can't even explain
what they're doing because the

outside organization doesn't get it.

Michael: What?

What do you mean you treat your
people well and they perform better?

Yeah.

Like, I don't understand
what you're saying.

Well, we treat our people well
and then they perform better.

No, no, but, but I don't understand.

What are you doing?

Right?

I remember one, one student of ours
was so at a loss to explain it.

He said, oh, we implemented a framework.

We, we implemented DevOps right.

To, so they can understand something.

Go, oh, DevOps, okay, great.

We'll make everybody DevOps.

Well,

Audree: I mean

Michael: it's like, you

Audree: know what, and, and that like
our work, our leadership training course,

we actually had to say it's a framework.

Because otherwise organizations
weren't getting it.

But when we said, oh, we're
giving you a framework, they're

like, oh, great, we'll hire you.

But it's really an UN framework.

It's not a framework
because there's an art.

There's an art to this, and
an art is not a framework.

Well,

Michael: the framework is there.

Audree: Every situation you
show up to is, is unique.

Michael: The framework is there to show
you as a leader what to do in the micro

tactics to evolve your own consciousness.

To evolve out of command and
control BA habits to kick kick the

negative habits and start opening
yourself up to healthier ones.

That that's what it does,

Audree: right,

Michael: is basically,

' Audree: cause every organization
has a unique DDNA, right?

And you're working within the
organization to listen to that

unique DNA to see how to solve.

What is happening within the organization?

Michael: Im just getting at right now.

What Leo one is, the level one business
course is a way to give people a very

rapid way to detect within their own
choices and behaviors in thinking

patterns, command and control behaviors
that are gonna limit their success

and the success of their, their group.

Audree: Yeah,

Michael: it's actually like an
interrupt mechanism for the behavior

so that new behaviors can emerge.

Audree: Well.

An internal or audit is now
mandating organizational behavior.

They're just identifying the
behaviors and not solving the issues.

Mm-hmm.

Which is what we do.

Michael: Yeah.

Alright.

I think we're at time now.

Audree: Very good.

Michael: Very good.

Okay.

Let's close with three minutes
of the uh, B two mantra.

Audree: Do you wanna just wrap up why
this is important for evolution or did we,

Michael: well, I just to tie the
whole thread together, the personal

business is that we need an evolution
in all aspects of our society.

Not just our personal evolution,
not just our businesses, but the

food we eat, the, the, the, the, the
things we consume or wear or live in.

We need a a, a transfer.

How we consume power, like everything.

We need a transformation of all
of our society to function in

higher states of functioning.

I

Audree: know, that's why I keep saying
be evolutionary is a lifestyle brand.

Michael: Yeah.

So that's the tie in.

Is that good?

Audree: Beautiful.

Thank you.

Okay.

Michael: Alright, let's
close with three minutes.

And, uh, for everyone listening,
this is where you can just let

all of this just integrate.

Here we go.

Audree: Thank you for joining.

Let's be evolutionary.